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David Ashton
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Location: perth
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 Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| I've recently had an instruction from Building Maintenance and Works that all parcans are to be fitted with parsafes as we visit schools on any other work.We do all the repairs here in State schools and many private. |
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zordmaker
Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Location: Temmyson
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| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| David Ashton wrote: |
| I've recently had an instruction from Building Maintenance and Works that all parcans are to be fitted with parsafes as we visit schools on any other work.We do all the repairs here in State schools and many private. |
What a waste of time. Since these are generally well above the height that can be accessed by school staff anyway they are effectively treated as a fixed light fitting and serviced by qualified personnel only - usually isolated from supply.
The exception of course is focusing but again - qualified personnel only - working off a Genie lift or similar.
ZM |
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djrappa
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Location: Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:21 am Post subject: |
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What's a waste of time about making the fixtures safer to use for even trained personel?
And given you focus the fitting it must be energised, and usually you must touch the lamp base, making it safe is good.
_________________
Cheers
Clint Dulieu
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zordmaker
Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Location: Temmyson
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| djrappa wrote: |
What's a waste of time about making the fixtures safer to use for even trained personel?
And given you focus the fitting it must be energised, and usually you must touch the lamp base, making it safe is good. |
What's a waste of time is that it doubles the price of the work, which puts the job out of reach of the school's budget, in turn meaning the job doesn't go ahead at all, the globes stay blown and the system stays hobbled (and for that matter, dangerous).
ZM |
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David Ashton
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Location: perth
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Wrong, the cost of safety measures is paid by a state maintenance fund, not from drama budgets, further the TEE requires students to get hands on experience and many schools allow students, under supervision to focus lights.On a broader point, open backed single insulated cans are bloody dangerous and that applies to students and "experienced" personel |
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zordmaker
Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Location: Temmyson
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| David Ashton wrote: |
| Wrong, the cost of safety measures is paid by a state maintenance fund, |
!!!
Dunno which state you come from mate but it certainly ain't NSW!!
ZM |
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BLOW
Joined: 26 May 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| zordmaker wrote: |
!!!
Dunno which state you come from mate but it certainly ain't NSW!!
ZM |
I guess he lives in Perth as that what his location under his name says.  |
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RoderickvG
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| zordmaker wrote: |
What's a waste of time is that it doubles the price of the work, which puts the job out of reach of the school's budget, in turn meaning the job doesn't go ahead at all, the globes stay blown and the system stays hobbled (and for that matter, dangerous).
ZM |
Schools that can't afford $12 for a ParSafe to make their gear safe probably are better off with blown globes.
Much less risk that someone gets injured if it is not working at all.
The interesting side of the story is that Parcans don't meet basic design standards in Australia and as such should certainly not have been sold to, or installed, in schools.
But try to explain that to a contractor who values profit over safety.
_________________
Think it is too expensive to hire a professional, wait until you hire an amateur |
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Ashley R
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Location: Narre Warren VIC Australia
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Last round of quotes I got for par safes was $18-$20ea! I would certinally like to know where you can get them for $12ea. As I need to purchase a good 40 of them it stacks up.
PLus the cost of fitting would probs take it up to $30 per parsafe or more. Im at the moment dealing with a school who are saying they cant find $150 for a Pair of 2nd hand profiles that they said they would buy....... |
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djrappa
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Location: Gold Coast
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| RoderickvG wrote: |
| But try to explain that to a contractor who values profit over safety. |
Why do I get the feeling that's exactly what we're doing here??
In all seriousness, if you can't afford to do it the safe way then that doesn't mean you just do it the unsafe way! If you can't afford the cost then it shouldn't be done. Those pars shouldn't be in the school. Why on earth anyone is putting Par 64s into a school install just for a standard stage light is beyone me.
If they actually have a functioning tech or drama department that is to tech kids something then great, but if not it's pointless.
Much better to put in some Par 38 cans that the school maintenance dept can just buy the cheap lamps for and put in. After all the stage wash and cans are only there to complete the 'look' of the stage anyway.
We've stopped installing Par Cans in any venue or attraction here as a policy period. They are dangerous, labour intensive and can definately be replaced with LED solutions. The prohibitive factor is cost, and a company like ours can justify the increased CAPEX for LED. Schools really can't and that's why those schools should no longer be having Par Cans installed by people out to make a quick buck, or get themselves nice 'maintenance contracts.'
_________________
Cheers
Clint Dulieu
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zordmaker
Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Location: Temmyson
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="djrappa"]
| RoderickvG wrote: |
In all seriousness, if you can't afford to do it the safe way then that doesn't mean you just do it the unsafe way!' |
Here we go again. Can anyone again explain why something that has been considered safe for 30 years, is suddenly considered to be no longer so?
Answer : Dullards.
Parsafe is useful for situations where lights are on the road, rigged and de rigged regularly and used by unqualified or inecperienced persons.
They are not necessary for lights that are permanently rigged in the gods, accessible only by use of cherry picker or scissor lift, are protected by RCD and otherwise maintained while disconnected from supply and only maintained by qualified electrical personnel
There.
ZM |
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RoderickvG
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| zordmaker wrote: |
Can anyone again explain why something that has been considered safe for 30 years, is suddenly considered to be no longer so?
ZM |
Would you care to explain how a PAR64 can be considered safe?
As far as I can see it, it doesn't comply with the basic Australian Standards for electrical safety.
And it is probably for that reason that they are banned outright across Europe... Which is why somebody invented and manufactures ParSafes.
The reality is also that very few Parcans are rigged permanently 'in the gods', probably because they would be fairly useless there, and are primarily used in easily accessible positions.
Q: Who would argue against the use of ParSafes?
A: Cowboys
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Think it is too expensive to hire a professional, wait until you hire an amateur |
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zordmaker
Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Location: Temmyson
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| RoderickvG wrote: |
| it doesn't comply with the basic Australian Standards for electrical safety. |
Oh, you mean those things that none of the manufacturers or importers know exist, and which cost on average $20 per page to buy for supposedly safety related documents, and which change every few months or years for no other reason than to force you to buy them again and spend more money, and were written by supposed industry representative committees stuffed with shirts who never worked for a company with less than 100 employees in their life or have ever even picked up a pair of side cutters?
Oh yes, those standards. The "non standard" ones. (because they're basically a secret and nobody has access to them let alone can afford to buy them) I know those.
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And it is probably for that reason that they are banned outright across Europe...
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umm.. source please? "Banned".. by whom?
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Which is why somebody invented and manufactures ParSafes.
The reality is also that very few Parcans are rigged permanently 'in the gods', probably because they would be fairly useless there, and are primarily used in easily accessible positions. |
Oh my! Have you ever been to a venue or hall? Sorry, Perhaps you come from Tasmania. For me? I wish they were used in "more accessible" locations.. but hey, what would you put in a high school hall that doubles as a basketball gymnasium with a roof 18m high?
Would you look for a durable, long lasting, cheap, bright light, sealed against dust, that can be locked off as tight as Harbour bridge nuts (so it cant move when balls hit them) and that has a lamp life of 2000 hours (120v vers)? What else but a Par64?
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Q: Who would argue against the use of ParSafes?
A: Cowboys |
or A : Those that don't have access to them from their normal distributor. Funny how none of the normal Par64 suppliers in Aust also sell Parsafe eh?
ZM |
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David Ashton
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Location: perth
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Show Technology and Lighthouse sell them |
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zordmaker
Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Location: Temmyson
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| David Ashton wrote: |
| Show Technology and Lighthouse sell them |
Yeh we did have an account with Show Tech a little while back but got fed up with ordering stuff to find they were out of stock all the time (esp. parcans).
We did do a fair bit through LSW but nowadays Hills SVL seem to have come into favour, since we do alot of other business with them in audio and they're Syd based.
Ill admit the Par56 is doomed (to be overtaken by LED) but the 120v 64 still stands alone for biffo, butcho and lamp life.
In the end when you send an order to someone for $100 worth of Parsafes (to fit to cans you've ordered elsewhere) and you haven't dealt with them for years, they're very likely to ignore the order or find some excuse to close the account. Then there's the freight from two suppliers to consider as well.
Basically if parsafes should be adopted system wide then they should be available from everyone that sells PARs - not just a few.
ZM |
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