Stand on Chinese Knockoffs

djrappa · Joined: 09 Jun 2003 Location: Gold Coast

This is an issue I feel very strongly about and today it hit just a little too close to home...

Take a look at this fixture http://www.ywlight.com/Prod_view.php?id=168

Can anyone tell me how this product is being sold in this country and how in such a close knit industry anyone is happy to condone such a thing?

There is no question this is a Robe 575 direct copy, and if you see in the NEW PRODUCTS section of their site they now have a nice Robe 700 copy.

I am a little speechless that I found a nice rig of these just down the road from ULA's head office. I was even more speechless at where it was I found them.
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Clint Dulieu
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David Ashton · Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Location: perth

why is there no question that this is a direct copy, are the internals cloned or is it a lookalike?
I seem to remember Robe being accused of making lookalikes.
To me one moving head looks very much like another, it would be nice if they copied each others channel allocation.

J.P · Joined: 09 Jul 2004 Location: Queensland

Ummm Yup they DO !! Smile

djrappa · Joined: 09 Jun 2003 Location: Gold Coast

I haven't seen inside but given they have an identical feature set I'd say cloned as well.

Are you saying they do JP?

Robe were initially thought to create lookalikes as they began as an OEM for many other companies.
When Robe went to market under their own branding of course people first thought they were copying futurelight etc.
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Clint Dulieu
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J.P · Joined: 09 Jul 2004 Location: Queensland

mmmmm even the manual is a cut and paste :) word for word

Andy Ciddor · Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:44 pm Post subject:

Not all Chinese knock-offs are actually knock-offs, many are over-runs. That is, the factory keeps producing its contract manufactured product AFTER the contract has been filled. Many a company has discovered that their product has continued to flow from the Chinese factory long after the production run is complete.
This one of the reasons that manufacturers set up their own factories, to control the production runs as well as the quality.
It happens with everything from handbags to computers and clothing.
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djrappa · Joined: 09 Jun 2003 Location: Gold Coast

Very true Andy.

Of course in the case of this particular product it was always manufactured in Europe so would appear copying is at work here.
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Clint Dulieu
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Bivio · Joined: 01 Mar 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia

I thought Robe now do almost everything to do with manufacture of their premium Robe products (pro / touring gear) in house?

Previously some component manufacture, such as PCBs, was contracted to nearby companies. Maybe the chasis and casings were previously made elsewhere?

This would mean the copies in question are a direct result of reverse engineering - or at the least using the Robe casing and feature set to play on the established Robe brand.

It's a big issue worldwide, affecting every product imaginable.

Entertainment lighting isn't a consumer product that sells on the supermarket shelves and it is a fairly small close knit industry worldwide. I know some people like to buy cheap cordless mics for Karaoke that "look the part". I didn't think there would be equivelant demand for pro lighting rip offs.

From the Robe website (about us / history):

2009
Robe initiated a substantial expansion programme which included the acquisition of PCB production company Dioflex, its long term electronic parts supplier based in Roznov. 3.5 million Euros was invested in building a completely new Logistics Centre and in doubling its warehouse space to nearly 4,000 square metres. The latest factory expansion project houses a purpose-built Plastics Moulding Centre which covers about 1000 square metres, equipped with all necessary state-of-the-art machinery involved in this process. Frankfurt 2009 saw the preview of the first ROBIN products using the plasma lamp and 5 new ROBIN products launched at PLASA.

BLOW · Joined: 26 May 2003 Location: Melbourne, Australia

I have been guilty of using knock offs and to be honest I didn't know about it for close to 2 years afterwards.

The "Happy Tube" is a copy of the Versa Tube right down to its shitty mounting and 2 cable wiring system.

It could be said that the clone product led to the real item being introduced to our market.

$0.02

hdmcc · Joined: 17 May 2008 Location: Canberra

same as the pro-shop led bars. we have some from china which are identical minus the australian plugs and a "pro-shop" badge

Bivio · Joined: 01 Mar 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia

Ashley R · Joined: 19 Feb 2009 Location: Narre Warren VIC Australia

If you look hard enough you will find a copy of basically everything and anything that is on the market today.

Was recently looking for a Pair of Mac 250 Entours and I found a whole host of Chinese sellers of them at stupid prices. such as $2200 USD for a Pair inc Flight case inc Shipping.... Everything was the same from what I could see. the DMX Protocol, Casing, rigging methods.

And I see alot of Chinese manufactures are copying Martins Yolk Design on the Plastic obviously removing the Martin logo.

And sometimes its to hard to resist the prices. and you usually end up with 50% good 50% rubbish.

djrappa · Joined: 09 Jun 2003 Location: Gold Coast

I feel there is a big big difference between a Chinese fixture that is cheap because it is possible made with lower grade parts, and a fixture that is an exact copy. I have no problems with the chinese offering almost lower grade products at a great price as long as the product is their own.

I also have no problem with Chinese products in general, I run around 300 colour scrollers from a chinese manufacturer (who several western companies also purchase from as OEM) and they are great. Best scroller I've ever used. I also deal direct with the Chinese based company for support and their support is as good as any local company.

All depends on who you are dealing with and the product, but a direct copy, that is reverse engineered will never get any endorsement or justification in my books.
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Clint Dulieu
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RoderickvG · Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Location: Sydney

[quote="djrappa"] I also deal direct with the Chinese based company for support and their support is as good as any local company./quote]

Was that a stab at the level of service you get from some local suppliers?

Twisted Evil

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Ashley R · Joined: 19 Feb 2009 Location: Narre Warren VIC Australia

[quote="djrappa"]I feel there is a big big difference between a Chinese fixture that is cheap because it is possible made with lower grade parts, and a fixture that is an exact copy. I have no problems with the Chinese offering almost lower grade products at a great price as long as the product is their own.

All depends on who you are dealing with and the product, but a direct copy, that is reverse engineered will never get any endorsement or justification in my books.[/quote]

Well there im my eyes varying levels of copying. there are direct copy's most likely from the same factory that was assigned the contract in the first place using exactly the same parts from the same manufactures of the parts.

And then there are copy's of everything except the quality. and when a high quality stepper is used in the original they use the cheapest Chinese stepper possible.

Some of the company that ive dealt with are pritty good for customer service and support but that is very limited by the broken English and obviously them being many thousands of km away. But still no competition for having local support im my eyes.