Jands Vista lighting console - an interesting idea

[Chris Hocking]

I guess the most important thing about any software package is that when you want to do something, you want to do it as fast and as easily as possible. Shortcut keys, and the "Tab" key are so important.

Another important thing is to make everything to the users liking. Customization is also one of the keys to a great product. When I click the "Options" or "Preferences" button I want to be able to change *everything*, from normal OS features (seeing as Vista will be the only interface) such as mouse, keyboard, etc. features to the Vista App features (ie. how many undos you can do, changing the shortcut keys, how many recent shows should be displayed on the welcome screen, etc.).

I'm presumming Vista App has an undo function?? For all the Photoshop users out there, maybe a "History" feature would also be a good asset?

Plugins would also be good, so that 3rd party developers could create their own "effect generators", etc.

Again, just ideas!

~ Chris

[Spot]

Thanks for the ideas Chris. They look interesting and we'll see what we can do.

If I have any questions to these or any future suggestions you or others may post, I'll respond accordingly, else I'll just lurk. Hope this is OK.


Best etc.
_________________
David Timmins
Jands Pty Ltd

[Chris Hocking]

Just a few sites you may find interesting:

The Perfect Interface
http://polarcom.com/~patawi/matt/musings/perfect-ui.html

The Perfect User Interface
http://www.advogato.org/article/239.html

The Perfect App
http://perfect_app.tripod.com/

Interaction Architecture Solutions for the Real World
http://www.asktog.com/

~ Chris

[Chris Hocking]

I never knew how many Lighting Desks were actually used in this country!

Was doing a bit of "googling" and found some sites of interest. Just thought I'd share them (some of them "popular" desks, others I'd never heard of - doesn't mean they're not popular though!)...

http://www.adblighting.com/
http://www.avolites.org.uk/
http://www.compulite.com/
http://www.myelektralite.com/p/p2.html
http://www.enttec.com/
http://www.etcconnect.com/default.asp
http://www.showcad.com/
http://www.theatrelight.co.nz/
http://www.dmx512.ch/
http://www.zero88.com/home.php

Enjoy!

~ Chris

[Chris Hocking]

After looking at the LD website trend, I had a look at Derek Jone's site, and eventually discovered "REXX".

Maybe REXX would be worth looking into should you require a "macro" language for the Vista App?

More Info:
http://www.mindspring.com/~dave_martin/what_is_rexx_.html

~ Chris

[Chris Hocking]

Function idea: "Save preferences to disk"

If your a Vista user, but use a range of different physical Vista's (ie. you hire from a range of different hire companies), wouldn't it be cool if you could just pop in a floppy or CD and the Vista would change all the Vista App preferences to what *you* want them to be. One of the problems with the Grand MA is that you really have to "create" your own workspace. Wouldn't it be cool if you could just save your workspace preferences and load them up on a different console. Save you lots of time!

Maybe even on this same floppy/CD you could store "comments/notes". For example, maybe there's some trick with a certain fixture that you always forget. Maybe you can store notes for each fixture; you could go further, notes for any function of the Vista App.

Just an idea!

~ Chris

[Pok]

All LDs get stuck after a while- One excellent feature I have seen on a console is the ability to create a random look.

Select your fixture(s), hit the button, and voila, the console comes up with something completley random.

Ninety percent of the time it is crap, but the 10 percent that is good, is 100 percent original and often leads off in wonderful directions.

Could this be incorporated into the timeline structure somehow? And possibly more constraints- Tell the console I want a random look in this colour, or in this movement range, or in this time, etc etc.

[adam]

Hmmmm... Random-izer...

I Like It!

while we're all "pie in the sky" Why don't we have a desk/desks/platform that supports lighting "Plug-ins" Like DAE's.

There your "Randomizer" could be third party development.

Think about it.
_________________
Adam Boon
webmaster@paservices.com

[Chris Hocking]

Pok, I think you may be on to something!

An "intelligent" randomizer...sounds fantastic. You select a colour scheme (maybe have a database of colours that "work nice" together), some position limitations (ie. your movers can only focus on certain areas, such as the stage), and away you go!

Another thing that would be handy is that instead of saying that you got a Par56 in the air, maybe the software/desk/console should know exactly what gel is in it as well (for functions such as this randomizer). That way you could create a random "red" look without having to set up groups, etc. Have an internal gel database, so you just punch in gel codes and the desk does the rest...

You could even bring back those 'dodgy' lights-to-the-music functions - except obviously in a more advanced form. Although it could always go too far, and become so good, so advanced that it puts all us LD's out of a job!

Adam: third-party plug-ins is a great idea too.

~ Chris!

[Chris Hocking]

Instead of putting in a whole heap of parameters, fixtures need "drivers". Take the 'Pandoras Box' for example. Instead of just changing DMX values, a 'fixture' like this needs its own unique way of working with the timeline.

It's like a mouse on a computer. Sure all mice are the same in theory. They control a cursor on the screen. But some mice have three buttons - they need a different driver because they interact with the software differently. Some mice have those cool scrollers. Again, they need a different driver. Why drivers? Some old programs were made in the days when we didn't have scrollers on mice, and yet you can use a scroller to control the application. The hardware talks to the driver, the driver talks to the software. That's how I think these new lighting desks should work.

Just an idea...

~ Chris!

[Spot]

Chris,

Not exactly sure what you're suggesting here. Are you saying we need to have different (user) control interfaces for each fixture type, or that we should use drivers to make all fixtures look the same to the user?

FWIW at present all fixtures are controlled from the same (generic) user interface. You could argue that the fixture library is a driver for a fixture, enabling each fixture to be driven from the same interface, regardless of fixture type.

Let me know if I've missed your point.


David Timmins
Jands Pty Ltd
_________________
David Timmins
Jands Pty Ltd

[Chris Hocking]

David,

Sorry I wasn't very clear in my last post. I'm not really sure how to drag the ideas out of my head an put them down on paper (so to speak).

Basically, my idea is to bring lighting desks to the next level; make them 'intelligent'.

The way I see it is that the only reason humans are classified as intelligent is because they accumulate a vast amount of information/data over the years, and then make decisions based on this data. Why can't a lighting desk do it? It collects data, and then makes decisions. Simple.

OK, so what kind of data? Well it needs to know the area it is required to light. Easy. User draws the basics of the area on a touch screen.

It needs to know which fixtures it has to work with. Easy. You have to tell any lighting desk this. Best way, I think is to continue on with the touch screen drawing. Drag icons from the left of screen (fixtures, for example), onto the area (stage, truss, etc.). You can then tell the desk where the light is focused to. How? Easy. Just touch the screen.

It needs to know specifics about the fixtures, for example, what gel is in the fixture? Easy. When the user is telling the desk where the fixture is located, the user can tell the desk the specifics as well.

The desk will need to know other stuff obviously. Such as were external light enters the performance space.

The desk will also have to know which colour schemes to use. To know that it has to know what type of show it is. OK. Simple. Do some research. Create a database which links colour schemes with show types.

OK. So first step. Get as much data into the desk as possible. Even things that may seem irrelevant, the desk should know.

This of the desk as a beginner in the industry. A newbie lighting guy/girl. They know a bit, but they need to learn more, and more, and more...

OK. So you've got all this data. Then you have to manipulate it. You've just got to create a whole heap of "if...then...else" statements.

OK. So back to the point. What the hell was I talking about when I said "fixture drivers". The way I see it, just having a fixture library, which says DMX Channel 1 does this, DMX Channel 2 does this, etc. isn't 'powerful' enough. A driver would contain information that will help the software/desk make decisions in the manipulation/processing/thinking stage. For example, the desk might want to know how long it will take for a moving light (I don't know...maybe a Mac2k), to 'jump' to a certain position. Your average fixture library won't be able to tell you that. My idea is that a "fixture driver" will. The way I see it is that a "fixture driver" is an state-of-the-art fixture library item.

I agree with you that you should have one generic user interface for all fixtures. That's not what I'm saying (although I'm probably talking complete crap and this post is completely impossible to understand)!

When I see the word "fixture library" my brain automatically thinks that you're working with very simple technology. Don't know why. Just does. When you say "driver" though it seems to me you're talking about a piece of technology that can be as advanced as you want to make it. I guess it all comes down to how you label an item. To me "driver" sounds better...

Anyway! The way I see it, the desk is now 'intelligent'. It has a whole lot of data, and it can basically think for itself (well, not "think" but make decisions based on the large quantity of data it holds).

Take the randomizer function mentioned in previous posts. With the new level of data, the randomizer can create effects of a high standard. It knows how long it will take for a Mac2k to focus on a certain spot from its current position. It knows the difference between a Lee and a Rosco "blue". It knows which lights and where, so that it can create a look that looks good. A look at looks like it was create by a human.

I imagine a desk that knows if it doesn't have enough data then it can't take an educated guess.

Ever seen the movie Minority Report? That's the sort of technology I'm talking about - but instead of just moving you hands, you use a touch screen. The Vista doesn't have a touch screen, so you use the mouse and keyboard. Easy.

I'm talking about a basic kind of "artificial intelligence". An "Expert System" as Information System developers would call it.

[Spot]

Chris,

A few quick replies:


>
...Drag icons from the left of screen (fixtures, for example), onto the area (stage, truss, etc.). You can then tell the desk where the light is focused to. How? Easy. Just touch the screen.
<

Firstly we aren't planning on full visualisation in the Vista. There are a couple of reasons for this, the most important being that other people do it well already (eg Cast). As I understand it there are also patents around that effectively prohibit it.

Additionally locating a point in 3D space on a 2D tablet is also very difficult ie knowing exactly where you want to point the lights with a simple click would require pointing on two views.


<
When I see the word "fixture library" my brain automatically thinks that you're working with very simple technology. Don't know why. Just does. When you say "driver" though it seems to me you're talking about a piece of technology that can be as advanced as you want to make it. I guess it all comes down to how you label an item. To me "driver" sounds better...
>

The Vista fixture libraries have become quite complicated in order to provide the generic modelling feature you already know about. They really are more akin to a Driver than a library in the traditional sense.


>
It knows the difference between a Lee and a Rosco "blue". It knows which lights and where, so that it can create a look that looks good.
<

The Vista definitely knows the difference between Lee and Rosco blue.


Thanks for your comments and ideas.
_________________
David Timmins
Jands Pty Ltd

[Chris Hocking]

The first 10 have been shipped.

What are YOUR thoughts?

~fergz

[Chris Hocking]

Anyone used one on a show yet?

GrandMA Vs Vista?