Do I need an Exit Sign

[djrappa]

So after 5 years this question has presented itself.

We have a big 'hanger' that a major show effect comes out of, of course completely blacked out, with no lighting inside.
When the effects comes out the audience can see completely into this hanger, even the red LED indicator on an emergency light had to be covered as it was too distracting.

2 crew members are present in the hanger at the time of the effect which has a door to exit.

OH&S are now saying we need to put an exit sign in this space, which will look terrible for show.

What's the regs here? I know some venues don't have exit signs except for in emergencies, how does that work??
_________________
Cheers
Clint Dulieu
vrtp

[JBoer]

That sounds like a bit of a different scenario than a standard theatre arrangement. I would say that it would come down to the risk assessment again.

What they have in the Drama and Opera Theatres of the Opera House though is that at the doors at the back of the auditorium they have standard maintained fittings, the exits just house side of the proscenium and the ones on stage are non-maintained (so that when power fails they come on, but they are also connected the the 'Panic' light system that the board operator can operate turning on the emergency lights in the venue) They do not have exit lights on the stage exits in the Opera for example but rely on all personnel to use the stage area must be inducted..

Or that is what I have been told in any case..

[djrappa]

Great, any more points towards regulations or examples in use would be great.

My theory is that anyone in this area (which is aleady hazardous and requires induction) has already been inducted so is aware of the exit.
I would hope to install a non maintained fitting for emergency situations. There is no existing panic light system in the venue so nothing to be connected to there.
_________________
Cheers
Clint Dulieu
vrtp

[David Ashton]

In a theatre situation you can use the green "running man" sign on a black background which is not too obtrusive.

[DavidDuffy]

I have seen the effect Clint is talking about and he really needs zero light in that area. Any amount of spill from an exit light would spoil it as the audience is looking right in.
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David Duffy
Audio Visual Devices

[RoderickvG]

You may be able to use a 'glow in the dark' sign if it is in an area just used by crew.
If you PM me some details and a plan, I'll be happy to have a quick look.

Roderick
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Think it is too expensive to hire a professional, wait until you hire an amateur

[djrappa]

Nope, no good, can't be ANY light where this sign has to be. So in show conditions (only about 10 mins a day) it can't be lit at all.


_________________
Cheers
Clint Dulieu
vrtp

[DavidDuffy]

Surely any exit light could be killed off while the hanger doors are open.

I can't remember whether the hanger doors stay open while the unit is deployed?
_________________
David Duffy
Audio Visual Devices

[Ric]

This is a situation where a risk assesment and associated procedure should cover the situation for the intended time span.
Similar to how turning off smoke detectors is possible during a performance.

You should be able to have correct exit signs for normal situation, then during this small duration have a procedure that covers an emergency with those emergency lights turned off, in the special circumstance.

As long as an appropriate risk assessment and procedure are done, and I'd also suggest a signed log of the lights being switched off & then on again, I would think you have covered all the bases.
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Cheers,
Ric

[Scott Allan]

Hi Clint

I have turned to "cinema-style" fixtures in low/no-light applications in the past... seems to keep everyone happy.

Good luck!
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Regards
Scott
sallanld.com

[GL]

Interesting question...

2 crewpersons only in the hanger, no general public?
At a guess, it would sound like a proper induction for the two crew, with the exit door/ handle/ egress marked in glowtape in a concealed manner (maybe hide a sign behind a return and cover it in a green gel) which the punters can't see. An emergency plan for the two crewpersons would be needed also, similar as to what an employer would have for work in a confined space.... perhaps?

Does the hanger block/ work into any exits already in place? therein may lay your problem and OHS insistences
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"No matter what age we are, some have never quite left the schoolyard"

[Don Allen]

You need to check the local regulations for your specific requirements.

In WA the Public Buildings Act Regulation 16(1) - Exit signs states "Exit signs are required in accordance with the BCA. When signs are required they must comply with AS2293."

In
AS2293.3-2005 Emergency escape lighting and exit signs for buildings
Part 3: Emergency escape luminaires and exit signs

1.4 DEFINITIONS
1.4.1 General
For the purpose of this Standard, the definitions given in AS 2293.1 and those below apply.
NOTE: Some of the definitions below appear in AS 2293.1 but, being specific to exit signs, are repeated here for convenience.
1.4.2 Definitions of exit sign type
1.4.2.1 Standard internally illuminated exit sign
A sign consisting of white symbols on a green background, in accordance with Figure 3.1, both being light emitting or light transmitting.
1.4.2.2 Low illuminance area internally illuminated exit sign
A sign consisting of light emitting or light transmitting green symbols on an opaque background. Referred to herein as a ‘low illuminance area exit sign’.
1.4.2.3 Externally illuminated exit sign
A sign consisting of white symbols on a green background, in accordance with Figure 3.1, illuminated by an incident source comprising an emergency luminaire located in front of the
plane of the sign face.

3.2 TYPES OF EXIT SIGN
For the purpose of applying this Standard, an exit sign shall be classified as one of three
types as follows:
(a) As a standard internally illuminated exit sign in accordance with Clause 1.4.2.1.
(b) As a low illuminance area exit sign in accordance with Clause 1.4.2.2.
(c) As an externally illuminated exit sign in accordance with Clause 1.4.2.3.

3.3.6.3 Low illuminance area exit signs
The symbols on the face of a low illuminance self illuminated sign shall be green as per the
requirements specified in Clause 3.3.2.
The background shall be a colour other than green. A dark colour is recommended.
3.3.6.4 Externally illuminated exit sign
The green and white portions of an externally illuminated exit sign shall comply with the relevant colour specification requirements specified in Clause 3.3.6.2.

3.4.2 Standard internally illuminated exit signs
The requirements are:
(a) On the green areas of the pictorial elements, at each applicable measurement site specified in Figure 3.4 the C0 luminance measured shall be not less than 8 cd/m2 and the C60 luminance shall be not less than 10% of the C0 value.
(b) The ratio of the C0 luminance measured at each applicable white measurement site specified in Figure 3.4 to the C0 value at the nearest green measurement site shall be not less than 4:1.
(c) The variation in C0 luminance between any two white measurement sites specified in Figure 3.4, or between any two green measurement site in the same figure, shall not be greater than 5:1.
(d) For a single element sign, at no point shall the luminance be less than the minimum C0 and C60 values stated in Clause 3.4.2(a) for an additional background, which must be adjacent to the pictorial element and have a minimum area that is at least equal to
the area of the pictorial element.
NOTE: Refer to Clause 3.3.4 for additional information.
3.4.3 Low illuminance area exit signs
The requirements are:
(a) At each applicable measurement site specified in Figure 3.4, the C0 luminance measured shall be not less than 2 cd/m2 and not greater than 25 cd/m2 and the C60 luminance shall be not less than 10% of the C0 value.
(b) The variation in C0 luminance between any two applicable measurement sites specified in Figure 3.4 shall be not greater than 5:1.
3.4.4 Externally illuminated exit signs
Refer to AS 2293.1.


AS 2293.1.

6.3 USE OF EXTERNALLY ILLUMINATED SIGNS
Externally illuminated exit signs shall be used only in areas that are provided with appropriate means for automatically exhausting or excluding smoke.
NOTE: Externally illuminated exit signs have been found to be more affected by smoke than other types of exit sign and their use is therefore restricted as above.

6.7.2 Externally illuminated signs
Externally illuminated signs shall be provided with an illuminance of not less than 200 lx on the face of the sign. The variation in illuminance shall not exceed 3:1.
The light source used to illuminate the sign shall be located not more than 1.5 m from the face of the sign and shall be positioned relative to the sign in a manner that will ensure that there is no reduction in the contrast of the sign (due to reflection of the light source in the face of the sign) when viewed from within the required range of directions.
Any light source provided specifically for the purpose of illuminating the sign shall be screened from the view of persons moving through the designated area.

So in a no obligation/liability etc summary, you have a choice of three exit signs
The bright white background with a green exit for old or running man for new sign.
The dark (black) background with a green exit for old or running man for new sign as used in cinemas.
The externally illuminated sign.

Somewhere there will be details of how the illumination source is powered. tested etc, but it will allow you to have a dark exit sign for your hanger. You will need to get a full copy of the standards if the regulations incorporate the standards in them as a measure of compliance.
Hope that helps.
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Lighting Designer and manufacturer of Theatre Electronics

[richardsneville]

Given that the area's floor is above the height of the audience's field of vision, could you do some kind of glow tape / paint based arrows or exit template pointing towards the exit? The glow tape could be 'charged' before a performance or during with UV light, then everything could be switched off for the reveal moment....?
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Richard Neville
Mandylights

[JBoer]

The crew should be wearing HUD glasses with exit detection and identification, with GPS in case they get lost in smoke....

I think I would start looking at if you could get away with the black exits that are maintained generally, but as has been said have a 'performance' mode where they are tuned off when needed. This could also be a timer system so that they aren't left off but also on a fire relay so that if the fire system is tripped they activate. (I know that it probably also has a performance mode but it does give another level of emergency control) You could also go as far as to have local over-ride buttons at the operator locations so that if something does happen they can turn on the emergency lights in that area. Of course also when there is a power black out on the the local lighting circuits they come on.

I have found that if you can give lots of reasonable options to OH&S guys you can usually find an agreeable solution.

[djrappa]

I think Richard and David's solutions will work best. Quite likely we won't even need the glow tape but a good thought. If only we could keep it clean.

Thanks for everyone input.

On a slightly related matter, what are the actual laws and regs for the use of the black exit signs as apposed to the green?
_________________
Cheers
Clint Dulieu
vrtp