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Current Affairs :: RE: Truss above audience

RoderickvG — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 21:07:51 GMT

Author: RoderickvG
Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:07 am (GMT 10)

Andy Ciddor wrote:

If you're going to start spreading rumours like this, you'll cause a lot of confusion.

Isn't that part of the ALIA chapter?
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Current Affairs :: RE: Truss above audience

Andy Ciddor — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:52:19 GMT

Author: Andy Ciddor
Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:52 am (GMT 10)

RoderickvG wrote:

BTW, performers are people too....

I don't know where you got this information.
Much of what you read on the Internet isn't true you know.

If you're going to start spreading rumours like this, you'll cause a lot of confusion.
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Andy Ciddor

Current Affairs :: RE: Truss above audience

RoderickvG — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 11:31:44 GMT

Author: RoderickvG
Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:31 pm (GMT 10)

beatsonic wrote:

really?? you mean they aren't dispensable?
that really takes all the fun out of it!!

Sorry mate, but somebody had to.

Although in honesty, not too sure about the dispensable part

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Current Affairs :: RE: Truss above audience

beatsonic — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:17:09 GMT

Author: beatsonic
Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:17 pm (GMT 10)

Quote:

BTW, performers are people too....
I know this may come as a shock but the same rules apply.

really?? you mean they aren't dispensable?
that really takes all the fun out of it!!
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Current Affairs :: RE: Truss above audience

alexp — Sun, 25 Jul 2010 08:23:06 GMT

Author: alexp
Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:23 pm (GMT 10)

i meant that the lowest point above audience should be 3m. so no1 can jump and grab ahold or hit things and hurt themselfs!
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Current Affairs :: RE: Truss above audience

GL — Sat, 24 Jul 2010 05:48:35 GMT

Author: GL
Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:48 pm (GMT 10)

The 2.4m/3m thing is a generalised approach to ensuring a punter can't jump up and attach themselves to the truss/ banner/ product etc, and start swinging off it... causing themselves or someone else injury or equipment/ product faillure/ damage. Its a general rule of thumb, the same as a 3m exclusion zone around a boom lift in use or a point going up.

definitely though: "wasn't feasable"/ " not available most of the time" just doesn't cut it and double brake motors would be the best call... but you would still be advised to cover yourself and be able to show that you took all possible precautions to make the job as safe and as failsafe as you possibly could. (and don't forget to unplug the motor control leads, when trimmed )

people have been using single brake motors over the stage since the year dot but over an audience/ public space, it is an entirely different ballgame so to speak, because you are dealing with the public and the public ain't afraid to sue. Most motors I deal with, from various production companies, are load tested once a year as well as T'nT'd and well maintained... sadly, not all companies keep to a high standard and have a "she'll be right mate" attitude, which basically can be a disaster waiting to happen.
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Current Affairs :: RE: Truss above audience

RoderickvG — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 23:05:27 GMT

Author: RoderickvG
Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:05 am (GMT 10)

There are no laws or Australian Standards to relate directly to hanging a truss above an audience. But there are references in the OH&S Regulation that require you to follow the manufacturers' instructions. There is not a 'single clause' answer, you have to look at various clauses to get the full picture. If you want to have a go, look at Chapter 5, parts 5.2, 5.3 & 5.4.
And be warned, if anything would go wrong, that 'not feasible' isn't an accepted excuse in court, specially since there is an acceptable solution - double brake motors which are designed for the task.

Don't worry too much about soft slings. For short terms installations, in capable hands, they are perfectly acceptable.

What venues want, or don't want, is quite irrelevant. It is your duty of care to make sure that all plant and equipment is used as it was designed and for tasks it was designed for.
For example, some venues will ask to see your ticket before handing you the keys to the forklift, some don't. Just because they didn't ask for a ticket doesn't mean you can operate a forklift if you don't have a ticket.
If the venue allows you to rig a FOH truss on two single brake motors and it fails, it will still be you answering the magistrate, not the venue although they may get some of the blame.

I know it happens everyday in many venues, but that doesn't make it right. It is still an unacceptable risk.

I won't hold my breath on any standards as applied in Europe. They successfully banned the use 'unprotected' PAR64 ceramics 15 years ago, yet we seem to be too happy sticking our hands in the back of the PAR64 with a 'naked' ceramic.
Ironically there is a very specific Australian Standard that clearly prohibits electrical equipment with exposed wiring to be used in Australia. But nobody seems to care, until someone is electrocuted.

And finally, Alexp, I am not sure where you got that nugget of information but it is wrong (see above). And where did you get the 3 metre specification?
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Current Affairs :: RE: Truss above audience

BoredOp — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 13:16:19 GMT

Author: BoredOp
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:16 pm (GMT 10)

I realised i sounded quite like a beginner when i re read that...

It was more inquisitive if there was actually any legislation or aus standard etc etc... Some venues need this, some venues need that, some dont specify anything.

Unfortunately in my area of the industry, safetying truss is not a feasible option, as we do not have time to detach the truss everytime we need the bring the trusses in, which is quite often...

I try as best i can to always get gacflex or steels, but alas it is not available most of the time... And so most of the time the trusses i have hung over the stage are hung of soft slings and single clutch brake motors (Loadstars)...

I am sure we will start to head towards similar to the european and German standards BGV-C1...

Current Affairs :: RE: Truss above audience

alexp — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 12:47:04 GMT

Author: alexp
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:47 pm (GMT 10)

you can hang it over punters, has to be higher then 3m in public access areas!
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Current Affairs :: RE: Truss above audience

GL — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 04:03:24 GMT

Author: GL
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:03 pm (GMT 10)

The thing with hanging a truss (anything really) over the punters (or in a public space), is the public liability (insurance) is exposed and great pains, every safeguard, should be taken to ensure everything is safe.
(engineer's report on the roof structure the point/s is being attached too, rigging gear fully inspected by competent people, , load proofed winches/ motors... installed by competent people, the works
eg: cover your a*se)

Ideally a secondary point (dead hang) for each motor should be installed, if using single brake motors/ chain blocks, etc and the weight taken off the motor... that is a secondary taken from the truss to the RSJ/ purchase, not to just above the block to the chain, where if the block slips the safety goes with it. (goats feet are ok, but can jar loose in a shock, in any event, they have to be kept under tension to work properly)
Gacflex/ steel would probably be preferred over soft sling (which have recently found themselves banned on some construction sites in Adelaide, due to a dogman not checking properly and putting a dodgy one into service, causing death when it failed.) In any account the secondary should be all steel.
Fixtures should be individually safety'd, as well as barndoors and gel frames.
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